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Stop Bullying by Toxic, Adult Children
By Ben | July 1, 2010
Stopping bullying by toxic parents and grandparents is only one side of the coin. The other side is to stop bullying of parents by adult children who are toxic users and abusers.
I’ll focus on the adult children who:
- Make poor decisions and try bully their parents to bail them out time after time.
- Still yell at or even hit their middle-aged parents just like they did when they were teenagers.
- Extort money from their parents in return for allowing them to see the grandchildren.
I won’t go into the abuse of elderly or senile parents, nor into situations in which the child is disabled or retarded and will need parental care for life.
For parents, this is one of the most heart-wrenching situations; to see that your adult children are:
- Still incompetent and failing.
- Still trying to manipulate or coerce you, long after they should have become independent and work to get what they want from the world.
- Characterless, nasty, abusive adults – entitled, blaming, narcissistic, weak and desperate.
Of course we parents think we’re at fault. We can self-bully until we feel guilt and shame. “Where did we go wrong?” And of course those selfish, manipulative children try to increase those feelings so that we’ll continue giving them what they want.
Although it’s now too late to begin when your children were young, getting an idea about what we could have done then might help us now.
Parenting experts for the last generation have falsely assumed and wrongly encouraged people to think that if they kept protecting their immature, irresponsible children from consequences and kept giving them infinite second changes, the children would eventually mature and develop confidence, self-respect and self-esteem. They would become competent and independent adults.
Of course, a few children do change and become responsible when they’re coddled. But this strategy encourages most children to remain weak and needy, expecting to be supported for life if they’re in trouble. The best way to produce spoiled brats (at any age) is to give them what they want.
Instead, you must not let your heart guide your actions. You must let them fail and bear the consequences, no matter how hard. You must keep reminding them that they will need to take care of themselves; they will be dependent on their own judgment and effort. This is not an all-or-none shift. There should be a gradual shift as they pass from elementary school to middle or junior high school.
In a loving and firm way, encourage them to learn how the world works and to do their best, but stop protecting them. I think of that in the same way I think of helping plants get hardy enough to survive in temperate zones – we leave them out longer and longer in chilly nights.
Although there are too many brutal, abusive, uncaring, selfish, demanding parents, the biggest mistake I see parents make is to coddle their children way too long.
Don’t use the word, “supportive;” it’s too non-specific. Be specific; give them encouragement to work hard and live poor if they can’t do better. But don’t be a friend, don’t be a bank, don’t be a 7-11.
As for the shame and guilt you might feel because the children didn’t turn out the way you’d hoped; give it up. They have free will. By the time they’re adults they make their own choices. Truthfully, how much success did any of us have giving advice to teenagers? They listen to their own drumbeat; just like we did, whether our parents liked it or not.
So what can we do now? The same thing we should have done back then: cut them off economically. Ignore promises; behavior counts. Give your treats to the independent, self-supporting children who don’t need them. Don’t give them to the irresponsible children who depend on and demand them.
Don’t let them yell, shove or hit you; don’t let them harass or abuse you. Hang up or throw them out immediately. Remember, we’re adults; we must demand civilized behavior on our islands. If they can’t be polite, they can’t be on our islands.
Make a family rule: we get together to have a good time, not to straighten each other out, or review our bank balances, or complain, whine or blame. Keep offering fun when you get together. Stop offering advice or money.
Don’t debate or argue about what’s right or fair. We suffered enough of those when they were teenagers. It’s your money, you get to do what you want with it; they’re not entitled to anything.
Of course, your heart will bleed, but keep that to yourself. Worry, cry and pray in private. Remind them that it’s their lives and they have to succeed on their own.
With the grandchildren, we have two paths. The first is to remain firm and suffer the consequences when they withhold the grandchildren. We all know the truth about blackmail and extortion: bullies raise the price and there will be no end to it. If they deny you access to the grandchildren; write, call, send presents and keep records. You’ll make your case when the grandchildren turn 18.
The second path is to purchase time with your beloved grandchildren in hopes that you can have an effect on them so they won’t turn out like your children did. Expect the price in money and abuse of you to increase with time. Unfortunately, the grandchildren usually learn to hold you up for what they want.
There is no instant and easy cure. Your children have free will. They have chosen and can continue to choose to be weak and irresponsible. You didn’t cause it, although you might have enabled it by giving them too much. They can try to drag you under when they flail around because they think they’re drowning. Don’t let them drag you under.
For a clear example, read in “How to Stop Bullies in Their Tracks,” the study of how Paula slowly succeeded with her teenage daughter, Stacy,
Topics: Bullies at Home, Coaching, Consulting, parenting, Relationships, Stop Bullies Book | 30 Comments »
July 1st, 2010 at 12:03 pm
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July 23rd, 2010 at 7:32 am
I am a 29 year old sexual child abuse survivor. My abuser was a removed distant family member. I am looking to make connections with other surviors and specifically other survivors who are writing. I just recently published a Christian Childrens book that aims to give hope back to children whom have had theirs stolen. I have a site with my backstory and info on what I have written. Please check it out and leave me a comment.http://auntloubooks.weebly.com/
July 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Great topic. I read a book called Weakfish by Michael Dorn. I also heard him speak.
He made the point that a big source of deadly violence are the kids who were bullied. After a period of being bullied, they decide enough is enough and acquire lethal weapons. Which they use.
Thoughts?
July 27th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Hi John,
The point is well taken. I’m future oriented so, when faced with analysis, I ask, so what? How does that help us?
And, at the same time, most of the bullies I see at school, at home and at work have learned that tactic and won’t give it up.
By the way, that was not the case with Harris and Klebolt, the Columbine killers. They weren’t bullied and then struck back. They simply used that to play the system and make people feel sorry for them.
Best wishes,
Ben
August 24th, 2010 at 1:22 am
Thank you for your words. I have not seen my grandchildren in a year, 1 of which I have never met. I will be OK if I don’t see them because I know I can never pay enough – that is not my fault because I’m not ‘setting the price’. Thank you for confirming that this is emotional blackmail.
August 29th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Hi Robin,
I’m so sorry for your pain and for the opportunity missed by your grandchildren.
Suggestion: write them letters every week, date them and seal them. Save them until the kids are adults.
In the letters tell the truth matter-of-factly about why you can’t see them or even send the letters.
Tell them what you’re doing each week, what you might have taken them to or done with them or shown them or read to them. Tell them funny stories about what you see and hear. Tell them stories about the people you hear about or know who are great and wonderful. Tell them about your parents and grandparents – their ancestors.
Take pictures of what they missed because or their parents.
Stay strong. Maybe you’ll get lucky. Many people do.
Best wishes,
Ben
September 26th, 2010 at 7:33 am
This was just the kind of article I needed to read. Two of my adult kids are great at this bullying and witholding grandkids. I refuse to put up with it anymore, and if they choose to stay away, I will survive. Daughter in law is stuffed up her families rear, but only because they give, give, give to her and her kids. If they stopped doing so, she would do them the same way…but they give in to her. Now my son has a sense of entitlement! They have $500 for football tickets, but gripe because they have bad tires on the car. They eat out pretty much every day, but cannot afford a better place to live or a nicer dependable car. They are angry because I won’t give them more like her family does, so we get none of the holidays, kids school pics or programs etc. I will not cave to their blackmail, and if they choose to be estranged, it’s their choice. Am I wrong in my feelings?
September 27th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Hi Jane,
I’m assuming that you’re fine and loving to your grandchildren and simply won’t be blackmailed with “pay for play.”
So, I’d be clear with your son about wanting to be with the kids. Leave out all the stuff about your daughter-in-law and her family. If he says that you have to pay to be with them or get pictures etc, then you know where he’s standing now. Don’t argue with him about buying grandkid time; simply say that you won’t pay and you still want to be with them.
If they deny you access, write letters to the kids and save them until they’re adults. State the truth and move on to fun subjects. Buy them birthday and holiday presents. If your son won’t allow you to bring or give them; store them until the kids are adults.
There’s not much else I can think of; your son is the father and has the right to deny you. Of course, someday, he’ll have to look in the mirror at himself. When that day comes, don’t let him try to excuse himself by blaming on his wife; he’s responsible for what he chooses.
Get support and coaching to keep you steady and firm.
Best wishes,
Ben
October 4th, 2010 at 7:00 am
Yes, I have been a good and loving grandparent. I acknowledge their birthdays, and other holidays, and ask to see them from time to time or just invite their families up for a swim and dinner. I found out my son has decided he and his family will move in with his wifes newly divorced mother. I wish him all the luck in the world, he will need it. I will not discuss his wife or her family issues with him, that is not my job. My son has a good job, but his wife does not work much except for a few hours a week. He makes more money than I do, and more than my husband too, but if they are not responsible in how they spend it, they will suffer the consequences I agree. I do not owe them anything, they are adults. They make snotty comments on Facebook trying to get me to react or respond…of course I also refuse to play those kid games and do not reply. Thank you for your response, and I will just keep doing what I am doing, and I will take your suggestions as far as saving letters and photos for the grandkids at age 18. Thanks so much, Jane
October 6th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Hi Jane,
Good for you! Keep on keeping on.
Maybe you’ll find people near you who appreciate a great grandmother even though the connection isn’t biological.
Best wishes,
Ben
October 9th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Well sadly all chaos has broken loose as of yesterday. My daughter confronted my son and his wife about the snippy comments on facebook concerning how upset they are that my husband and I not “doing enough, or giving them enough”. I has continued to ignore their comments becuae I felt it would be childish and innappropriate to respond since they were spoiling for a fight. But my daughter did respond and basically said that I am a good grandparent and I have done a lot for them, but they want more and more. She also confronted him about keeping the kids from us and told them they were wrong. They immediately responded with false comments and got angry, which is what they wanted all along. I refrained from getting involved at all. I have 4 grankids with me this weekend and we had a pizza/slumber party, we watched movies, we played with pets, we took a nice walk, we went to the library and got books and movies, and we went for ice cream. I would love to do this with my sons kids, but the wife only wants “her family” involved because they buy them more, give them money, etc. Those grandparents have 3 grandkids, where I have 8. I also work third shift which is difficult since everyone elses schedule is “day shift” hours. My son was so angry at being confronted with the truths that he and his wife removed me as friend on their facebook accounts even though it was not my fault. So I guess I will be having those grandkids witheld from my life even more than before. I refuse to buy into the games they play, and I do not plan to respond or try to contact in any way. I did my best and it is sad that there are others that want to love and enjoy their kids and they withold it from THEM as well. I will do something different for gifts from now on. I plan to open savings account for the kids and put my name and the kids names on it! I will contribute to the account then send the kids a card to let them know. If they send the cards back I will do as suggested and save them for when they are older and give them then! Thanks for the advice.
October 12th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Hi Jane,
Good for your daughter.
In a way, their unfriending you is a gift; you don’t have to read what they write so you don’t waste time, energy and calories paying attention to them. You can have so many better things to pay attention to.
Keep hanging in. If you’re lucky, one of your son’s children will see his parents as they are. Give everything to that one.
Good luck,
Ben
October 23rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
I have been bullied by my daughter-in-law over many years and now my son has joined in and have take my grandchildren from me. I unfortunately reacted badly by begging and pleading to see my grandchildren, then tried to negotiate in what I thought was an adult way. My son and daughter-in-law then became angry and insulting even being vicious at times. they then recruited my other daughter-in-law whos part has been very passive- aggressive, not answering the phone or returning my calls. She has been quite nasty but they all deny this and say that it is I who is nasty. I recently vented to a so-called friens in an email, never dreaming that my friend would let her daughter read my email and then send it on to my daughter-in-law. This has now caused serious tension with my other son who has previously been ok with me. I admit my email to my ‘friend’ was angry and not very nice but i thought it was between me and her and she now is defending her daughter for sending it to my daught-in-law. So I am now successfully isolated from my entire family except for my eldest son, who has previously been ostracised but is now back in the fold, I’m guessing to try to split me from all my children. My friends daughter has also spread nasty lies about me, eg, that I am addicted to prescription drugs and theredfor unsafe with the grandchildren. I am devestated and cannot believe that this has happened. I have started to see a counsellor but she is quite amazed at the level of brutality and I haven’t got very far into the counselling yet. I’m still at a loss and grif-stricken.
October 26th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Hi Helen,
Thanks for sharing.
I believe you…and that’s part of what hurts so much.
Yes, begging, pleading and negotiating usually don’t work with such people. It’s heart breaking when your son sells his soul for a mess of porridge. Once their minds are made up, they can only learn through their own experience, not through our words and good intentions. That is; reason and logic won’t change them. Only getting ripped up emotionally by the bully or the control-freak enlightens them.
No matter what you did, the result would have been the same – you’d be attacked. Bullies always have reasons and justifications; they say it’s your fault because you didn’t act perfectly. But the truth is that relentless bullies bully because they’re bullies. Hyenas and jackals are predators because they’re predators.
By the way, I think that your friend is not your friend. No matter what excuses she has for showing her daughter, no matter what she says he hoped to gain, if she was your friend, she’d have asked your permission first.
Make sure your counselor is expert at this kind of viciousness. And at developing plans designed for your specific situation or you’ll lose your grandchildren.
By the way: when did this fighting between you and your kids, and among them begin?
Best wishes,
Ben
October 27th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
This all began in September this year. The son who has cut me off has now appologised to my eldest son (who is now rather wary of him) but I have seen the counsellopr now twice and the plan is for the moment for me to have no contact with any of my children (except for the eldest, who has some disabilities, yes it all started with them attacking him verbally) and give me time to heal, away from the abuse and at alater time start to work on what, if anything I can do. The two eldest sons are still kind to me and loving but the second son contacts me away from his wife , I guess so she doesn’t know.Thanks for your help. What you said was what my counsellor said!
November 13th, 2010 at 12:45 am
I now don’t hear from my 2nd son and haven’t seen my grandchildren for weeks. I have decided not to contact any of them until they choose to contact me in a reasonable and respectful way. I also don’t feel comfortable being with my D.I.L. after she has said that I am unstable, mad and unhealthy to have around my granchildren. What would you do? My counsellor is on holiday. Thanks, Ben.
November 18th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Hi Helen
This is a terrible, painful situation but you can’t let yourself be abused by people, even if or especially if, they’re relatives and have access to you. And can whack you whenever you want.
Stay strong in the direction you and your counselor have chosen.
To be more specific, we’d have to talk and design a plan.
Best wishes,
Ben
November 20th, 2010 at 6:47 am
I spoke at length with my 2nd son this week and he seemed to have no idea of what has actually been said to, and about me in it’s entirety. He was visably upset by my sadness and what has happened.
He wants me to come and see his kids but he works 7 days per week and I don’t want to go to his house if he’s not there. I just don’t trust his wife anymore. She will not bring the kids to me, of course, or let me take them out as I am ‘mad’ and too ‘unstable’ to be alone with the kids. So, what next? I just don’t know. What do you think?
November 23rd, 2010 at 10:09 am
Hi Helen,
I think that we need a coaching talk to design a plan that fits all the details of your situation.
There’s a lot going on and a lot on the line. You can’t be as successful as you want with even the greatest general advice.
Call me at 303-458-666.
Best wishes,
Ben
February 2nd, 2011 at 11:00 pm
[...] it gets to that point, you’ll never win the argument. You’re being poisoned slowly, there’s no convincing a toxic predator to change and your only hope is getting [...]
February 12th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
My daughter is more disrespectful and name calling. She uses profanity towards me and is very critical of everything I do. She has my two grandchildren that I love very much and uses them to hurt me or for leverage. We like with my Mother and my Dad just passed away this year. My mom is very fragile and still morns for my Dad so I don’t say to much because I don’t want to make my Mom upset. Just tonight my daughter who is 24 got mad at me because I wanted to use the laptop I just purchased two days before and she told me no because I had let my Mom and nephew use it. I have to have her move out with my grandchildren that breaks my heart. I just want piece in the house and that won’t happen with her here. I’m just afraid my Mom won’t be able to bare the emptiness without the kids and guilt from making them leave.
February 14th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Hi Jerry,
This is a really tough situation and I don’t see an easy way out.
It looks like you do have to choose which of the bad alternatives you want to live with.
Personally, I choose to vote bullies off my island and live with the consequences – even if they hurt. I’d stand for no-bullies and would hope that, someday, my nephew would understand.
And sometimes, when you stand up for good treatment more strongly than the other person wants to bully you, they change. But not always. For example, see the case studies or Doug, Ralph and Jake “How to Stop Bullies in Their Tracks,” available fastest from this web site.
No guilt. You have to set standards in your life.
Best wishes,
Ben
October 4th, 2011 at 8:16 am
[...] that’s the same step the most successful people take when they have toxic parents, toxic children or toxic relatives. [...]
October 16th, 2011 at 10:59 pm
My oldest Son is a bully…After years of verbal abuse started when he was about 15. Then endured years of his drug addiction/recovery/addiction,not sure where he is in the cycle,tired of trying to save him from himself and his bad choices,I cant do it! I am angry,hurt and dissapointed with who he has become. My husband and I have paid for speeding tickets, cars,tow fees,drug rehab,actually took time off from work to sit on him during drug detox not letting him out of our sight trying to save his life after we found him on the streets living out of his car in bad shape,and too many other things to list.He is married now and in a toxic realtionship,with another recovering drug addict,and now they have a child,who is my heart and now they are using him as a pawn to get money from us. My son wanted to leave his wife and move in with us,he is unemployed and has no intentions of working,wants someone else to support him,the government,his wife(who works pt)or his parents. I told him no he couldnt move in because he has no job and it would be a financial hardship on us.Actually its more than that,its like walking on egg shells around him and I cant have the drama and contention and stress he would bring into my home.He sent several mean and hateful text messages to me immediatly after I told him no. He has not talked to me since and wont let me see the baby. It does break my heart about my grandbaby but I will have to get over it. I admit that I have enabled him in the past trying to help him and I refuse to do it anymore. He is an emotional blackmailer and I can honestly say the past 13 days of no contact with him have been stress free,he constantly has a black cloud and tries to bring everyone down around him.I have some bad days when I cry because I dont know what to do to fix the situation and actually my heart is broken too. I realize it isnt mine to fix,I can no longer enable him.Thanks for letting me vent.
October 16th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
sorry my prior post was soooo long,thanks for any advice or enlightenment you cann share.
October 18th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
Hi Sad Grandma,
I’m sorry it has gotten to this – one of the most heartbreaking choices.
You know if you give in you’re only feeding his insatiable desires, but if you don’t you won’t see the baby.
There’s no easy path here, but I do have a personal preference that comes from experience.
If you give in and take your son in or give him money, your son has no chance of getting better. In fact he’ll get worse and more demanding.
“Fire when it is fed, does not get quenched. It is never satisfied. Its appetite grows with what it feeds on … The more it has, the more it wants.” The Mahabharata
In order to have any chance of having a good future, I think you must NOT give in. You must be willing to suffer and pray.
There are some other things to do that might help you have contact with the baby after your son crashes and burns. But all these have to be discussed to see if they fit your situation.
A lot of people have been helped by phone coaching to make a plan they can live with and to develop the strength, courage and perseverance to carry it out.
Call me at 1-877-8BULLIES (877-828-5543).
Best wishes,
Ben
November 17th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
There is so much information available about bullied children, yet so little about parents being bullied and emotionlly abused by adult children. One of my children has been emotionally volatile since childhood. My husband and I took her to a counselor when shewas a young teen. We wanted to learn about, and deal apporpriately with, her violent outbursts. Now she is in her 40s and her explosions continue. They happen when she is under stress. The effects can be devastating. The name-calling, gaslighting, cursing, and silent treatment are all part of it. When we say no to any requests, we are bombarded with verbal vitriol.
The latest episode occurred immediately after I said I did not want to break an educational trust that my husband and I set up for my grandson’s education. My daughter wanted to use the money for a used car for my grandson, who’s starting college next fall. I was called some horrible names, was told I am selfish and even mentlly ill.
Through counseling, I have learned to maintain my cool and my integrity. My husband and I have wondeful relationships with our grandchildren but after last week’s outburst, my daughter reverted to her silent treatment. We are supposed to fly down to visit them for the holidays. Now I don’t know whether we should go. We have hotel reservations but do not want to subject ourselves to abuse, such as a door slammed in our faces.
faces. And what do I say to the grandkids?
November 23rd, 2011 at 11:41 am
Hi Florimond,
I’m so sorry. This is one of the most heartbreaking situations. And I’ll bet you didn’t do anything so bad that you could say, “That’s why.” It’s just that our child is whack-o and nasty and vicious, and you really don’t do anything now to deserve it. And even when you give her whatshe wants, when she seems to need to explode, she’ll find a reason to attack you.
So I start with your inner certainty. It’s not your fault and you’ve been slimed and smeared by a “drive-by vomitter.”
That doesn’t make it stop. But that can give you a perspective not to take it personally and not to let it get you – no matter how discouraging it is.
I don’t know of an easy way in these situations or a guaranteed way to make things work. Stick to what you know to be best for the grandchildren. Know that she’ll try to blackmail you – “give her what she wants or she won’t let you see the kids and she’ll tell them it’s your fault because you’re bad.” If you can talk to them directly, that can help.
We probably need coaching by phone/Skype to come up with a plan that fits your specific situation. And there are many things you can do to bond with the kids now and later in life. They also see how crazy she is and they know better than to believe her. Usually, at least one will break away and come to you.
Please call me for coaching at 1-877-8BULLIES (877-828-5543).
Best wishes,
Ben
November 25th, 2011 at 7:04 am
Dear Ben–Thank you so much for your reply. My husband and I decided to see our local counselor for what I call a “tune-up.” He has helped us over the years whenever my daughter has one of her flare-ups. We haven’t decided yet whether we will make that holiday trip, but we’ve learned that it’s important to take some time to reflect before acting. Your comments were exactly what our counselor has told us over the years. However, your drive-by vomitter comment was the best I’ve ever heard. So thanks again for the guidance, and the laughs. Florimond
November 28th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
Hi Florimond,
Glad you’re seeing someone face-to-face.
Also that you’ve laughed. Laughing allows us to step out of the pain and reconnect to our wisdom and our commitment to our isle of song.
Vote Selfish, Narcissistic, Insensitive People off Your Isle of Song
http://www.bulliesbegoneblog.com/2011/10/09/vote-selfish-narcissistic-insensitive-people-off-your-isle-of-song/
Best wishes,
Ben